WheelDweller's Profile

  • http://fahrlander.net/brian
  • Jan 10, 2006
  • 7
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Latest comments made by: WheelDweller

  • Here's that link I was talking about; it's InfoWEEK, not InfoWORLD, making it harder to find on InfoWorld. :) i.cmpnet.com/infoweek/1057/IWKLinuxOutlook-2005.pdf
    WheelDweller had this to say on Jan 10, 2006 Posts: 7
    When Will Apple Notice Linux?
  • I wasn't going to reply again; but it stuns me how the elephant in this room is being avoided. So just once more, and I'm leaving. If you want to continue, just message me directly. I keep hearing that "Linux is hard", but it's historically been easier than a BSD. They're otherwise SO functionally identical that they even run some of the same binaries. Both platforms are "hard to use" because, unlike Microsoft dictating code to programmers, and releasing a final product, these still under development. This is key: WE have a say in development. Both decry CircusWare and bugs, both are adamant about making a neutral place where programs can run. Both are noble and worthy. More important than my feelings are the results: *BSD has gone almost nowhere while Linux is everywhere. A handful of manufacturers have used a BSD from time to time, but the license has always stood in the way of it's acceptance. Yet consider this: Every morning Apple users start, run and maintain a BSD machine. Not only will it survive the day, they're productive and happy about it. And they don't even know it's a BSD! Apple just put a new UI over it, and worked their usual magic. No discussion of distro was ever raised or answered. But by using a BSD over Linux, they've overlooked what's kept the BSD family from growing...it's licensing. The original AT&T license was much like that of a Model T; physics-rules about a physical object of commerce. They squeezed every penny from every floppy disk. They wanted $4000 for the base OS, more for the code, and anything you made could be their property. In the end, it caused the forking, fragmentation and it's own death. One such fork, the first BSD, was a softer license, but they couldn't be "free". The other BSDs sprung up around these differences and never unified. The authors still wanted some contol over the product, but it was an improvement. But few commerical entities could feel comfortable there. And for over a decade it's gone nowhere. This is precisely why Linux exists; a purer form of freedom. Sure, it's a shame about the BSDs...but Linux gives us a platform with unlimited life through an almost unlimited license. Truly a neutral ground. Finally. Now....see: Apple is the last bastian of what computing for the masses (for money) should be. They care about the customer as much as profit. They are good and noble people. I just think that if they were making the effort, why select a platform that will ultimately end? Why, *again* in history, does Apple make the choice to keep themselves in a tiny pool of propriety, instead of jumping into the big pool of standards, and become the big dog? (See also: their choice of motorola over Intel, at the start, noticing they came BACK.) It would have cost them the same money, and lead to the same result. Just a damned shame.
    WheelDweller had this to say on Jan 07, 2006 Posts: 7
    When Will Apple Notice Linux?
  • (Enjoy the yawn. Sun did. SCO, too.) You still don't have the emersion down quite right. These are _distros_ owned by corporations. Apple can have one too. The kernel changes can be made, sure. If it's something stupid like putting floating point comparisons in there, you'll be forking instead of developing, sure. Did you know I haven't fiddled with kernel compliation in at least five years? I haven't had to open a tarball in about as long. It's all, already there. If you're serious about some kind of kernel change, there are alternatives like modules. Or make your case the the kernel crew; heck if it's compelling enough you might get them to add it on the next release. Just how many changes to the Apple kernels have you successfully gotten through? I'm tellin' ya; this is different. Like it or not, it's not goin' back into the egg.
    WheelDweller had this to say on Jan 07, 2006 Posts: 7
    When Will Apple Notice Linux?
  • You guys seem to have been elsewhere as all this happened; I'll try to fill you in as best I can. Darwin is being supported by a company, right? If that company folds, or starts to show much promise, it will belong to Microsoft. (Just ask IBM) Otherwise it's like a fork of Linux- a competitor. Linux is owned by us; that's why SCO Systems, with a $150M boost from Microsoft tried so hard to kill it in court, but can't. Bill sees this in his nightmares- code that he can't kill. That's got to keep him up at night. And tons of development is going on with Linux; in this last year it nailed 1/4 of all the "Smart phones" in production. From iPod-knock-offs to mainframes, LinkSys routers, DishNetwork PVRs; this is going wide, right now- it's not slowing down. Did ya notice that Sun, selling (what amounts to) a PC running Unix, for about $10,000 is now almost dead? When you can replace their functionality for a couple hundred dollars and still get the stability, Sun isn't so interesting anymore. It doesn't help that Sun IGNORED Linux, despite it's close simularities and bashed it for a while- obviously, they weren't paying attention. Neither did SCO Systems, but both of these weren't in direct competition. Both are on the ropes. Mac isn't in close competition, either. But if someone spends the money to make something as smooth operating and slick sitting on top of Linux, and sells it like Apple....what's Apple got left to sell? Again, great hardware and good tech support, for a machine costing lots more. Linux people are kinda some of the most accepting folks you'll find. There was support for AppleTalk before Apple got serious about TCP/IP. Support for the PowerPC (YellowDog distro) came up spuriously- not at a board of director's meeting. There's no corporate boundaries to trip over. Every keystroke I know works the same on YellowDog (PPC) as it does on Fedora(x86 & x86_64). No re-training. If Apple is, as y'all maintain, the target for what people want, Linux is headed there. And unlike Apple (or any corporation I've seen so far) they don't ever have to trash an entire OS release to do something new. (See Win95/98/2K/NT/XP) they just keep re-using code because it's woven to our collective will, as it's built. That puts Apple "on the tracks" in front of Linux, at some point. Heads in the sand don't change anything. Right now the time is right for moving, before the next Intel and the next Microsoft are born. (And yeah, I'm told that Laptop support is poor for Linux; outside of NDISWRAPPER, the only alternative is to buy the supported hardware. NDAs- gotta love'em. It's the law!)
    WheelDweller had this to say on Jan 07, 2006 Posts: 7
    When Will Apple Notice Linux?
  • Ya know, the castle walls can't look like playing cards until you stand on the edges. You're applying old-world, corporate mindsets to something that has *already* shown itself. Let me see if I can express it differently. What Apple owner bought *BSD? Did that owner specify that he wanted NetBSD, or OpenBSD? (No distro choice, aye?) Linux soars because it's one, single kernel- not seven forks. Linux learned from BSD which learned from Commercial Unix what was wrong. AT&T managed to take the great idea of Unix, and in 10 years of commercialization, drive it right into the ground. Linux, with it's openness, corrects all these problems. Start with the Linux kernel. Maybe with a Debian distro (I kinda like Ubuntu but no matter). Move OS/X there, and start porting around it. Package it up, call it "Mac OS/11" and start selling it. This is all they did to put it on *BSD! Otherwise, (snicker if you will) Apple will lose to Linux, in the long run. There's no way to stop it. Trust me on this; I've seen a lot in the last 27 years.
    WheelDweller had this to say on Jan 07, 2006 Posts: 7
    When Will Apple Notice Linux?
  • Wow. Love the registration system on this site. I spent 20m composing a message, then had to cut-n-paste once I felt sure I was really logged in. To top it off, an accidental double-click screwed up the text! I give up; it's too big to re-post; sorry.
    WheelDweller had this to say on Jan 06, 2006 Posts: 7
    When Will Apple Notice Linux?
  • "Headless servers don't need music"? That's funny, and it shows you've not been a part of the Linux progress for several years. InfoWorld, a year ago, reported t"Headless servers don't need music"? That's funny, and it shows you've not been a part of the Linux progress for several years. InfoWorld, a year ago, reported there's twice as many Linux **desktops** as there are Macs. I can find the URL, if you like. At home, my workstations are just simple installs of Fedora Core 4. I use LDAP and NFS to provide Single-Sign-On (SSO) for all the machines in the house. People can change seats and take their data with them. It's my core, headless server that holds all the user files, music, and movies. It makes machines disposable; "Stewie" was purchased for $30; it's an old Compaq P3. Windows can't run on them anymore, so they're dirt-cheap. Love that hardware-churn. Can't wait for Vista! No, it's not a typical "collection of desktops", but it's very robust, simple, cheap, and everyone loves it. Even the neighbors want in! They're buying the twisted-pair, now. I buy every CD and rip them into the collection. I have a whole shelf of CDs collecting dust for just one reason- to free me from prosecution, should the Fed come a-knockin'. There are re-sale stores with CDs for only $5 or so, legitimate, so I can wait for iTunes. The author's right. They're missing out on a goldmine. My suggestion? Sell OS/X as a proprietary interface for Linux (Think: Gnome/KDE). And keep making some of the best hardware on Earth. Get all the Linux folks, and the converting PC folks, too. Mac folks couldn't care less what OS is there, and they won't need to. AND FOR ONCE EVERYONE IN COMPUTING CAN DEVELOPE FOR A COMMON PLATFORM, IN FREEDOM. Wouldn't that be cool? I've been dreaming about it since 1978...here's twice as many Linux **desktops** as there are Macs. I can find the URL, if you like. At home, my workstations are just simple installs of Fedora Core 4. I use LDAP and NFS to provide Single-Sign-On (SSO) for all the machines in the house. People can change seats and take their data with them. It's my core, headless server that holds all the user files, music, and movies. It makes machines disposable; "Stewie" was purchased for $30; it's an old Compaq P3. Windows can't run on them anymore, so they're dirt-cheap. Love that hardware-churn. Can't wait for Vista! No, it's not a typical "collection of desktops", but it's very robust, simple, cheap, and everyone loves it. Even the neighbors want in! They're buying the twisted-pair, now. I buy every CD and rip them into the collection. I have a whole shelf of CDs collecting dust for just one reason- to free me from prosecution, should the Fed come a-knockin'. There are re-sale stores with CDs for only $5 or so, legitimate, so I can wait for iTunes. The author's right. They're missing out on a goldmine. My suggestion? Sell OS/X as a proprietary interface for Linux (Think: Gnome/KDE). And keep making some of the best hardware on Earth. Get all the Linux folks, and the converting PC folks, too. Mac folks couldn't care less what OS is there, and they won't need to. AND FOR ONCE EVERYONE IN COMPUTING CAN DEVELOPE FOR A COMMON PLATFORM, IN FREEDOM. Wouldn't that be cool? I've been dreaming about it since 1978...
    WheelDweller had this to say on Jan 06, 2006 Posts: 7
    When Will Apple Notice Linux?